How To Gain Influence With Anyone with Chris Voss | Unlocked with Michelle Delamor

00:00:00: Today's guest has spent his career navigating some of the highest stakes conversations imaginable.

00:00:05: Chris Voss is a former FBI hostage negotiator, best-selling author of Never Split The Difference and one of world leading experts on negotiation & communication.

00:00:15: In this conversation we talk about how to build trust quickly –the mistakes most people make in negotiations–and the communications skills that can completely change the outcome from hostage situations to boardroom negotiations.

00:00:27: Let's get into

00:00:31: it!

00:00:42: All right, so

00:00:57: let's jump

00:00:58: into this.

00:00:59: Very very excited to have this conversation.

00:01:02: It is my pleasure.

00:01:03: and what's my favorite show on TV?

00:01:07: Yes!

00:01:08: Come one.

00:01:09: I know you are absolutely amazing On the show.

00:01:12: No it was very kind.

00:01:13: i appreciate that.

00:01:14: yes all right.

00:01:15: So Chris You Have...I'll actually say you

00:01:19: were One

00:01:19: of The most intentional communicators and effective communicators I've ever met.

00:01:26: And you also have such a unique background, of course as an FBI negotiator, hostage negotiator something that most people who never even experienced or been able to go behind the scenes with what's something like it is do feel.

00:01:41: your communication skills?

00:01:42: Your ability to read people are some things that were born-with or learned over time?

00:01:50: I mean, everybody's born with the gift.

00:01:54: We're this tremendous blank slate at birth and then there is a lot of stuff that gets layered on top as we grow how we are nurtured—the nature in the nurture but... The nature at birth.

00:02:06: it just like this phenomenal thing!

00:02:09: And if anything…I'm coachable and I'd like to learn.

00:02:16: If i want get enthused about a day If I have a task and i think, I got to get this tasks done.

00:02:22: It drags me down but if I'm going learn while doing the task then it gets excited.

00:02:29: so im excited by learning.

00:02:31: The environment that I grew up in.

00:02:33: My father would give me lists of things to do And say figure out how to get them done.

00:02:38: So its nature and nurture.

00:02:40: But unless you've some sort of real functional problem Nearly everybody was born with this.

00:02:49: Now, how they were nurtured after that is plays a big difference on whether or not you develop

00:02:55: it.

00:02:55: That's so interesting.

00:02:57: And then at what point did you decide?

00:03:00: This Is where You wanted to dedicate your life as A career?

00:03:03: I Was the SWAT guy!

00:03:05: Uh...I was SWAT.

00:03:07: I was slated To go The SWAT Team Kansas City Missouri Police Department.

00:03:11: The Bureau Hired me two weeks Before i was going to get transferred.

00:03:16: I got on the SWAT team Pittsburgh FBI, went out in some operations.

00:03:20: Got SWAT trained...I like crisis response because i like that people are forced to make decisions.

00:03:28: Comfortable inaction as John F Kennedy said is really what hurts everyone more than anything else.

00:03:34: The risks and costs of comfortable in action to paraphrase exceed the cost of any mistake you might make.

00:03:41: So I liked crisis response.

00:03:42: cause it force law enforcement.

00:03:43: I had recurring knee injuries, and I still want to stick in crisis response.

00:03:49: And so I thought well you know every time we go out on the SWAT team the Haas's negotiators go along...and a famous black SWAT boss.

00:03:59: there are two sayings of my family that my son and i joke about.

00:04:01: one is how hard could it be?

00:04:04: The other thing was anything worth doing is worth going into dark because my father always worked until well after sundown And so, but it was always.

00:04:13: how hard could it be?

00:04:13: Yeah.

00:04:13: I thought our could have been to be a hostage negotiation and turned out to be much harder and simultaneously more rewarding.

00:04:20: because i was rejected from the Negotiation team.

00:04:24: The woman in charge of the team told me go volunteer on suicide hotline.

00:04:29: What learned there about emotional intelligence just blew my mind.

00:04:34: That point that I was hooked.

00:04:37: what you can do So quickly with empathy to get people to make decisions and, uh...get out of comfortable in action.

00:04:46: It just blew me away.

00:04:47: it was pretty much at that point I knew one way or another i would pursue for the rest my

00:04:51: life.

00:04:52: This is amazing.

00:04:53: this-I actually going ask you about suicide hotline experience You talk about.

00:04:58: your book think will be fascinating.

00:05:00: understand what u learned about human experiences.

00:05:02: even go deeper into what you're saying like ya know yeah..just What did you learn from going through?

00:05:08: Well first of all how quickly empathy works.

00:05:12: What we now refer to as tactical empathy, applied emotional intelligence.

00:05:17: when I first got there they said There's a twenty minute time limit on all calls and i can remember thinking like twenty minutes.

00:05:24: you kidding me?

00:05:25: Like yeah ima Richard Branson fan in his book Losing My Virginity talks about the crisis hotline he did In England where was up all night with people Im like How could it be twenty minutes?

00:05:35: And then say no matter fact if your doing right It will take less time than that?

00:05:40: And sure enough, the application was true of people that genuinely wanted to collaborate.

00:05:46: Even in people in crisis acceleration is always really fast.

00:05:50: and then they taught us about manipulative types what they look like a fact you had be called care frontation but more confrontational with them less demonstration understanding because it would feed on life out the application of skills.

00:06:09: So, the first thing I learned on a hotline was how insanely effective reading others' emotions and emotional intelligence were.

00:06:19: And then really second thing that i learn is it's a perishable skill because as long as did my shifts which are two shifts per month eight hours every month...I always made all my shifts That doing this would actually Make you better.

00:06:35: just doing it not studying and just continuing to do It.

00:06:38: And I went up came up for an annual review at the end of The year, and my skills had eroded Tremendously

00:06:44: interesting.

00:06:45: why is that?

00:06:47: Little little bad habits creep in that You don't notice and sometimes people Congratulate you and reward you For communication.

00:06:57: really wasn't That good?

00:06:59: and the faux congratulations?

00:07:02: its Really easy to slip into advice and someone will say to you, yeah that advice is really good.

00:07:07: And it'll make you feel good.

00:07:09: but if you don't help somebody by giving them advice You helped him getting through themselves.

00:07:14: I learned at the end of year when a very sweet guy Very nice guys was just a friend who slaughtered me in review.

00:07:22: Oh wow!

00:07:23: In a good way It woke up and thought alright...you have continue to work on the skills while you're using them.

00:07:32: Great athletes are great at practice, Michael Jordan loved to practice.

00:07:36: Tiger Woods spent more time under practice courses than he did ever in tournaments.

00:07:43: The tournament was a break from the practice and when I learned that Practice is necessary to maintain perishable skills

00:07:51: That makes sense question for so can you take me into one of those calls.

00:07:57: You don't have to go into super detail, but just to understand when you are on the call with someone at what point?

00:08:02: Are they?

00:08:03: and then What communication did you find helped people kind of get them off the ledge?

00:08:10: The first thing was he had a spot whether or not there were a manipulative caller right off the bat because Probably about forty percent of the people that called in we're just there to manipulate.

00:08:20: We call them frequent callers.

00:08:22: Is that coming from just like seeking attention?

00:08:26: Well, they're...seeking attention and what some people refer to as energy vampires.

00:08:32: And it sucked the life out of everybody in their world.

00:08:35: so they call a suicide hotline because you were supposed talk them.

00:08:39: Interesting!

00:08:40: They are also same as bad customers.

00:08:46: there's lot of bad customers.

00:08:48: So tell on the Hotline if Can I talk to you about something now?

00:08:53: That's um code for i Talk uninterrupted and you shut up And we stay on the phone till.

00:09:02: I'm done talking as gonna be honest, and my response To that would be all talked with You Because I'm outlining their parameters of The relationship.

00:09:13: yeah As long as we communicate With each other or talk but if you're going to talk at me when need to Be silent I'm not playing But I'm Gonna respectfully point out how I do want to interact.

00:09:24: And then you're gonna make the choice as to whether or not your going to act with me, and what have it done?

00:09:30: Okay so that's about forty percent of people.

00:09:35: That is

00:09:35: so interesting!

00:09:36: So forty percent are really more manipulative.

00:09:39: they fall kind under that category for others who were in their position.

00:09:45: Well if i can hear one guy calls up at night Listen, I need putting a lid on this day.

00:09:53: I've got to put the lid on that today and just need your help with putting it in this

00:09:55: state.".

00:09:56: Alright so...I'm hearing that as genuine panic.

00:10:02: And so i said you sound frantic because he sounded frantic which is simply.

00:10:07: labeling negative is enormously powerful.

00:10:10: It's best way to deactivate a negative emotion.

00:10:14: His voice immediately came down Because they did what We now refer to as a label.

00:10:20: Back then we called it reflective listening, use sound and I'm just gonna try put the label on emotion that i am hearing And its...I sense there is genuine emotion so I call it up immediately deactivated.

00:10:32: So guy goes onto tell me he's battling his disease of paranoia.

00:10:37: His family has been very involved with him.

00:10:39: They are going take them some treatment next afternoon.

00:10:43: It will be long car ride because He's paranoid.

00:10:47: he is going to work himself into a fit in the car ride.

00:10:50: And so, his working itself into a FIT TONIGHT!

00:10:52: Thinking about how tough that car rides gonna be.

00:10:55: and hes outlining it for me.

00:10:57: How hard has families worked to help him?

00:11:00: I can remember i used the line A label That somebody once use to meet because ive was outlining The importance of my family To this guy and he said to me It sounds like your family close and i remembered In a moment...I never said that directly but Felt so good.

00:11:14: it drew together everything that I expressed.

00:11:16: And remember the, yeah i didn't know now then but The neurochemical feeling of oxytocin Of feeling hurt and I remember how Good That felt.

00:11:26: So I said to this guy sounds like your family's really close because they were knocking themselves out for him.

00:11:31: Course They're Close I'm just calling It Out.

00:11:33: When I Said That Heard and felt the strength come back into his voice.

00:11:39: So now he starts to outline everything.

00:11:40: He's telling me about how he'd been trying to beat the paranoia And how hard he worked at.

00:11:45: it Struck me that he was a determined guy, so I just said you sound really determined.

00:11:52: then he said yeah Yeah, I am and I'm gonna go on their car truck tomorrow be fine

00:11:59: Wow

00:12:00: Thanks, so i didn't give him any advice.

00:12:03: What I did was basically a sounding board, reflective listening.

00:12:12: And it took about as long to go through that call which is what?

00:12:17: A minute and half or two minutes

00:12:18: max?".

00:12:19: That's how fast this stuff can work when you start dialing into

00:12:22: somebody.".

00:12:25: That's so fascinating.

00:12:26: It sounds like with tactical empathy, and you can tell me more.

00:12:29: I'm sure you have a framework With all of this that you've learned but from what?

00:12:32: You're saying so much.

00:12:33: if it sounds Like...you saw him he felt heard He felt seen.

00:12:37: is that essentially kind Of the foundation of tactical empathy?

00:12:41: seeing yeah

00:12:41: And its two parts that-that you mentioned But i'm not sure If you realize they require both.

00:12:49: first of All..I did see Him!but he Felt Seen based on my reaction And if I don't articulate what i'm seeing, hearing understanding guessing even the other person and specifically when it is you can say.

00:13:05: I understand You have to throw a verbalize What?

00:13:08: You articulate will you think you understands?

00:13:11: so that's When they feel

00:13:13: interesting.

00:13:14: So you don't say I Understand.

00:13:16: That Can Almost Be Passive.

00:13:17: Anyone Can Say That You Showed That You Understand By Naming It by Saying What you're Seeing

00:13:24: You name it, and also what I think scares a lot of people is you leave yourself open to correction.

00:13:30: Now the craziest thing... Empathy's about your side of the conversation vastly different from theirs.

00:13:36: so What do i mean by that?

00:13:38: Most People when they get corrected are embarrassed.

00:13:41: The person correcting you Is helping you.

00:13:43: And So When You Throw Out A Communication Where You're Open To Correction I love it when somebody corrects me because they've now taken a mentoring position with me, which we're not no longer adversaries.

00:13:55: They don't see me as the threat is an enemy you know mentor or A threat for an enemy.

00:13:59: hmm so what?

00:14:01: I'm communicating with you.

00:14:02: if i get wrong and You Correct Me i have to realize right Now We are on The same side.

00:14:06: okay this Is gold.

00:14:08: This So good.

00:14:09: so many things to dig into.

00:14:10: i want To jump Into another story that you shared with me and Chris, a few of us on set around an actual hostage negotiation.

00:14:20: That took place I don't know if you remember but this was so fascinating the one that You weren't sure?

00:14:26: You didn't have any insight into whether the person Was even there or not.

00:14:30: do you remember what i'm talking about?

00:14:31: oh yeah probably in the heart Of my

00:14:33: rice.

00:14:33: Yeah exactly would you be up for sharing that story?

00:14:37: yeah okay

00:14:38: i'd love to.

00:14:39: i mean For variety reasons.

00:14:41: I figured that by the time we got out in front of this apartment and this Harlem high rise, there was no coverin' a hallway.

00:14:50: We were after some fugitives who had been shootout with automatic weapons the day before.

00:14:54: The twenty-seven floor to the highrise...we get the circus!

00:14:57: The circus has come to town which FBI SWAT investigators command.

00:15:03: like we've gotta buncha folks sound like an elephant rumble through the jungle getting into this apartment.

00:15:08: now floor below the apartment because an open elevator basically at the end of an empty hall is a funnel of death.

00:15:16: You can't open up where the bad guys are, cause if they happen to be out there in the hall you got nowhere to go.

00:15:21: so this makes even more noise!

00:15:23: We get off the elevator floor below and the circuses coming up stairs we get lined-up were on the stack.

00:15:31: I'm convinced that these guy's will long gone If their was by time showed upstairs with front entrance.

00:15:37: They sure got out of there before we get the doorway blocked off and We start talking to the door.

00:15:43: I started talk another door, i've got a couple of Negotiators in training with me And I brought the guys into training because you gotta Get used to talking To what were referred too as dry hole.

00:15:53: It's good practice The talk when theres nobody inside Because your gonna go on for hours without Anybody responding back.

00:16:01: How do u keep talking?

00:16:02: So we talked at this door For six solid hours And how do you talk for six hours?

00:16:09: If they're inside and there, They are not coming out.

00:16:13: You surmise that their scared of coming because it's going to get hurt!

00:16:18: So say look I know your worried about getting treated when you come up... ...and here is how you gonna come out safely be treated with respect and excruciating detail.

00:16:30: describe inch by inch what its gonna look like.

00:16:34: And the nice thing about this is it takes forever, because I got to kill six hours.

00:16:42: Then what else do you say?

00:16:43: You said well look just approved here that i'm not going anywhere.

00:16:47: let me go through this one more time.

00:16:49: so we're about six hours into this thing and The investigative squad has convinced their insight.

00:16:55: We are trying to get out of there.

00:16:57: the SWAT guys looking at command come on in right here.

00:17:00: Command is looking at the investigators like, come on.

00:17:02: How much time do we got to waste here?

00:17:04: And about six hours in a sniper observer On top of an adjacent building says I just saw curtain move inside.

00:17:12: now We are just like bang.

00:17:14: it's like getting hit by electric shock.

00:17:16: they're really in there.

00:17:17: Yeah.

00:17:18: and so we go.

00:17:19: i go back to talking to the door and i said look i told you were not leaving.

00:17:24: You know i'm using my late night FM DJ voice.

00:17:30: move on the outside.

00:17:32: I've been telling you for about six hours we're not leaving, i know your inside.

00:17:39: here's what it is going to look like when you come out safely and without a word being uttered.

00:17:46: on the inside door opens up.

00:17:47: female comes out slowly...I said were gonna see her hands..we'll see her forearms....we will see her elbows.....we are gonna see his shoulders.

00:17:56: You're gonna step out slowly ,you gotta look to right .You'r gonna see a SWAT guy there.

00:18:01: He's not there to hurt you.

00:18:03: You're gonna walk over to him and handcuff ya, then he's going to walk you safely around the corner.

00:18:10: That's exactly what happens.

00:18:11: this girl comes out making every one of those moves.

00:18:15: as soon As her shoulders clear the door front she looks over sees a SWAT guy.

00:18:18: She's not scared.

00:18:19: I told her that's what she was gonna see.

00:18:21: Otherwise, you know This guy looked like a space alien with all the gearies got on.

00:18:24: could scare yet?

00:18:24: She walks over to them gets cuffed.

00:18:26: second guy comes up same thing.

00:18:28: don't say it work.

00:18:30: Third guy's a little more reluctant to come out.

00:18:33: Swat goes ahead and makes an entry.

00:18:34: I go on my talk with these two people.

00:18:36: afterwards, i Go.

00:18:39: why you know six hours?

00:18:40: Why didn't she say anything?

00:18:41: this girl looks at me.

00:18:42: She says because we wanted get away.

00:18:46: I said okay so why'd ya come up?

00:18:49: She says well You told us your weren't leaving!

00:18:52: We believed shit And they came out safely.

00:18:55: My gosh, I think first of all to your point the stamina those six hours but not even knowing.

00:19:01: But obviously you were still so effective in that it's so incredible to hear.

00:19:05: So that's so interesting.

00:19:06: You're telling them

00:19:07: what?

00:19:08: To do and there's also transparency about actually getting handcuffed as well.

00:19:13: So there is almost like that trust that you're building.

00:19:16: and Then your signature late night FM, what is a DJ voice?

00:19:21: Late night FM.

00:19:22: There you go.

00:19:23: late-night FM DJ voice.

00:19:24: okay so Is that generally A tone of voice That disarms people?

00:19:30: well exactly um it's.

00:19:32: It's warm its downward inflecting.

00:19:35: You don't have to have a deep voice To do or you can downward reflect by simply dropping your chin when you talk.

00:19:41: And it's reassuring.

00:19:42: the uh The best TV news anchors Have mastered that voice because They want to tell you something, and they just wanna feel that they know what their talking about.

00:19:52: You can trust them.

00:19:53: And so it is very disarming It's soothing.

00:19:55: There are neurochemical reactions That have taken place Every now or then.

00:20:00: if he finds a way To smile Then that gives the person another neurochemical Which besides calming down and disarmining Them puts him in better mood which makes people More willing to collaborate.

00:20:16: When there's a conflict happening, an argument going on the person who is able to kind of bring in that demeanor.

00:20:24: Bring in that more calm voice typically has a bit more influence you'd say?

00:20:28: Massively.

00:20:29: Oh massively yes!

00:20:30: Massively more influenced.

00:20:32: You know it's dictated little by circumstances.

00:20:35: Context typically matters.

00:20:37: But even being playful as superpower Self-effacing humor is being playful about poking fun at yourself.

00:20:46: You know, these are different elements of tactical empathy when you're calling out negatives or playing playful and poking fun to your self.

00:20:53: inviting collaboration it's very effective.

00:20:56: along the lines if you've got a dispute with somebody under any circumstances I probably seem like the dumbest person that ever ran You know, that begins to move them into a direction where they feel like they can talk

00:21:09: with you.

00:21:10: It makes so much sense!

00:21:11: Okay... So going in to creating the influential presence whether if it's conscious or subconscious when we're meeting someone for the first time We are already scanning out their status and authority.

00:21:23: The influence.

00:21:24: What are things that YOU think instantly create that Influential Presence?

00:21:29: Stay less Try to gain a sense of THEM A mile.

00:21:36: You know, don't rush in.

00:21:38: The most influential people in any room are typically the quietest ones.

00:21:42: The loudest one's...the masses might say ah you know this person is attention seeking.

00:21:49: they're very impactful.

00:21:51: and then not- the people who really want to talk too or sitting back laying gaining a sense of feel Of everything about a person.

00:22:01: I'm sitting in the audience at Georgetown a number years ago.

00:22:05: There's a CEO in the room who I know personally that is phenomenally successful and Dresses down low-key great entrepreneur, and i'm sitting there talking to him And he has their people In The Room That Are hey how are you?

00:22:23: Hey Making Sure But He Sees How Many People In A Room They Know.

00:22:28: and this guy John Is Sitting There Just not making a sound And I thought, yeah of all the people in this room.

00:22:35: This is a guy to be talking through and he's sitting back watching whose attention seeking versus who just has an open and warm presence?

00:22:45: A lot of the intention-seeking people they make a big splash or their own but really important are not coming near them because they've sat back again assessed.

00:22:55: so when you walk into your room look around see whos soaking you know, a great opening line is hi.

00:23:07: Because they're expecting the car salesperson to just hit him with his deluge and those people are very difficult to deal with over the long term.

00:23:18: They have poor implementation...they forget what they agreed to do frequently.

00:23:22: So question for you so let's say For a bubbly personality that naturally Is very warm and outgoing And out there stepping into their room Should that person, if it's a first impression even if it doesn't feel natural at first for them but to actually be the person they just sits and observes or should They step in?

00:23:41: To the room.

00:23:41: The way they typically do.

00:23:42: If you're naturally outgoing You want to interact with people as opposed to ad people Mm-hmm like you could.

00:23:48: you can step into a room With great presence if your interested and curious of people and she's celebrating being there with him And you've got an infectious attitude because its all very genuine.

00:23:59: I know that you were genuinely interested in people.

00:24:01: Yeah

00:24:02: and

00:24:04: Oh, You know i wasn't asking for a friend?

00:24:08: You weren't asking For a friend...you get this great sense of style.

00:24:11: Thank you

00:24:12: And your very warm..and Your Very Interactive ..And you're very supportive.

00:24:17: One Of the reasons why you guys are doing sixty day hostel is you trying to help People have better lives?

00:24:21: yeah

00:24:21: totally it's

00:24:22: clearly an Attention on The purpose of everything That you Guys Are Doing and you Trying To Help People Believe In Themselves and grow as human beings, to know that there are those out there who can support them in developing growth.

00:24:35: It comes across everything you're saying too.

00:24:37: I appreciate it!

00:24:39: Okay some tactical things here...I have a few questions for you.

00:24:45: When You Are In A Negotiation Let's say in a deal and the person on the other side goes quiet.

00:24:53: What is best way to continue to follow up or re-engage that person without losing leverage, with maintaining your authority at same time?

00:25:03: Yeah well first you know... The idea really was let go of concepts of leverage & authority.

00:25:08: think about relationship building & influence.

00:25:10: I love that!

00:25:11: That so much more human.

00:25:12: yeah because at end of day everybody wants to do this human.

00:25:16: So if they are going quiet Something is happened so that either they're overwhelmed by the circumstances of communicating with you.

00:25:23: It's just not making doing them any good.

00:25:25: if Communicating with you was moving at the ball forward in their head, they still be communicating With you mm-hmm.

00:25:31: So you might start with a one line.

00:25:35: text seems like things are really overwhelming right now

00:25:38: Mm-hmm?

00:25:39: So it seems like your overwhelm this time brings You back to top of mind in a very gentle way.

00:25:46: It's so interesting, because it feels counterintuitive for me to name an emotion that sounds negative.

00:25:51: Because I feel like I am projecting that on them or... But to your point you're naming it and you can be open to being corrected but you're opening up the conversation And then you are creating opportunity of mentorship even in a place where now we have conversations.

00:26:09: You're open to correction.

00:26:10: So Naming it Opens That Up.

00:26:13: Yeah, and you're making an observation based on data.

00:26:16: You've been given

00:26:17: yeah exactly

00:26:18: like it wasn't like he started out.

00:26:21: First contact with someone to say seems like they really overwhelmed right now?

00:26:25: You don't have any evidence to back that up.

00:26:27: so that would be projecting something in there.

00:26:30: That isn't there yet.

00:26:31: But you've had, you got enough interaction now.

00:26:33: You can start making educated guesses.

00:26:35: make sense that makes a lot of sense.

00:26:37: okay let's talk about your having the first conversation with someone who is very guarded tends to naturally be very guarded.

00:26:46: what Is The Best Way To Build Trust Quickly?

00:26:49: and I'll just say for myself i have so many different conversations And I Have Had Conversations In The Past Where Someone Will Not Turn Their Camera On on Zoom.

00:26:57: For Example Where's the connection, you know?

00:27:00: Right.

00:27:00: So I'm curious for people who tend to be much more guarded what is best way of building that trust and connection quickly?

00:27:09: Well...you're kind of talking about two different things at the same time.

00:27:12: Sure The first one let us say You are meeting them in person probably.

00:27:19: What do they saying themselves if their guarded ?

00:27:21: I hope your don't waste my time.

00:27:24: You could be proactive and calling these things out.

00:27:26: We actually we got a list.

00:27:27: We call it an accusations audit if you've got enough context And If you know they're guarded that gives you context.

00:27:34: what's causing them to be guarded?

00:27:35: They've been smooth talked and hustled.

00:27:37: the people have wasted their time.

00:27:38: Yeah,

00:27:39: and on our list of things will say like you know first of all I'm grateful for your time at All.

00:27:44: I'm lucky to have because if there is their garden and are busy inside Their saying themselves you're lucky to be talking with me at all.

00:27:52: so say that You know, I'm grateful for the time.

00:27:55: I'm lucky to have any of your time.

00:27:57: at some point in time you're probably going to wonder whether or not i'm wasting Your time again.

00:28:00: ask yourself why are taking this meeting now suddenly?

00:28:03: He seemed like a mind reader.

00:28:04: mm-hmm get out front of that.

00:28:07: A very guarded exact busy executive is used as somebody pitching them endlessly and Not listening too long Or asking him questions And not actually listen until he answers.

00:28:20: What's the biggest challenge you face?

00:28:21: And no matter what they say, You're coming with your value proposition.

00:28:24: Which means you didn't listen to how they answered it.

00:28:27: They've been not listened too a lot and their sick of it.

00:28:31: So you gotta show that you gonna pay attention... ...and you can show that paid attention walking in by doing what we call a cold.

00:28:37: read this situation and calling out Now if they correct you..you are embarrassed.

00:28:43: but you just changed whole relationship because now they're mentoring and are hoping.

00:28:50: a great mentor-mentee relationship is when the mentee actually listens to the mentor.

00:28:56: And so, there'll be like no I got a lot on my mind.

00:29:02: cool you just gotta great response or talking with you take emotionally intelligent educated guesses and lead with that.

00:29:12: then if you've got read it back set up Now You're Different Than Anybody Else.

00:29:16: Because all the other people came in, I got a pitch.

00:29:20: Got me elevated to pitch and got my value

00:29:22: proposition.".

00:29:24: Right!

00:29:25: That makes so much sense...I love that so much.

00:29:28: One of the biggest things i'm taking away from this is being open to be corrected not rigid in an area but also naming things name emotion.

00:29:37: it almost creates this.

00:29:39: It drops the guard a bit.

00:29:40: People feel seen In that way And its okay if you were wrong.

00:29:44: It flips dynamic relationship.

00:29:47: What do you see in negotiations?

00:29:48: that people consistently get wrong or the most common mistakes and negotiation?

00:29:53: Well, there's three kinds of negotiations.

00:29:56: The deals we should make...the deals we shouldn't make....and then the deal is what will never be made by time they have an interaction with someone their mind has any work from fifty to seventy percent made up already.

00:30:09: And then it begins to put us into different categories.

00:30:11: What are the deals you shouldn't Make?

00:30:14: Someone who very difficult to deal With Because they're always gonna be difficult to deal with.

00:30:20: Totally Which means implementation is always going to be a pain in the neck which means there's Gonna Be A lot of Mistakes, a Lot Of Errors.

00:30:27: It Is Going To Take Longer To Get The Deal Done Than it Should!

00:30:31: A Friend of Mine Joe Polish likes to call These People Halfs Hard Annoying Lame and Frustrating.

00:30:36: Now We Ran Our Own Internal Data To Distinguish The Halfs From The Elves Easy Lucrative And Fun.

00:30:43: And every time we made a deal with a half, it took us anywhere from two to five times the amount of time.

00:30:49: To negotiate and execute the deal which means you just took at least a fifty percent cut in pay for that person.

00:30:56: now The only reason for taking a fifty-percent cutting paid might be if It's a great client and You're gonna do business For twenty years.

00:31:03: but If it was a rocky rough difficult negotiation and implementation they are not going to repeat because the two sides both got sick of each other.

00:31:13: So you just took a fifty percent cut and pay with somebody, You're never gonna want to do business again because they sucked their life out.

00:31:19: it was blood money.

00:31:20: so call finding those people out early saves you makes you more profitable Because he didn't waste all that time

00:31:28: make sense?

00:31:29: So then we refer to it as the Oprah rule.

00:31:32: The last impression is the lasting impression.

00:31:34: We are going in this interaction As soon as possible can respectfully because I always want to leave a great last impression, cause it's the lasting impression.

00:31:43: And I made something say some and I have said this to potential clients that were pumping us for information.

00:31:47: when you're ready to make mutual commitments we'll be more than happy to be negotiation provider.

00:31:55: where you look back on twenty years of business with us talk about how much more money you've made Because You Worked

00:32:00: With Us

00:32:02: until then.

00:32:03: i wish you The Best.

00:32:05: Most Business People Think You got a fair shot at every deal.

00:32:09: And if you're good person, going to project your values no one would.

00:32:15: I would never play anybody else.

00:32:17: so therefore i can't presume that they are gonna play me and They don' t always have the value totally not demeaning anyone for recognizing who there is.

00:32:30: it's not match made in heaven

00:32:32: Going back And you know this is so interesting.

00:32:35: So my husband who, You Know Well Chris and I we run the company together and We are a great balance because i am like very much an optimist and i'm always seeing The best in people.

00:32:47: and chris i would say have.

00:32:49: he has some Optimists In him for sure but He tends to be Like.

00:32:53: he Sees it he Calls It Done.

00:32:55: He's like, oh I spotted that?

00:32:57: That's it.

00:32:57: this is not the right person to be in business with where i will see that sometimes and i want to see the best in the person.

00:33:03: And so on the half side what maybe chris quickly we'll see as a red flag.

00:33:07: i'll see us Like A yellow flag and i Want To Explore To Make Sure i'm Making The Wrong Decision About Like Dropping That Person.

00:33:15: So How Can You Create A Clear Conversation With Someone Where you're Seeing Kind Of A Bit of Consistent Pattern With Conflicts And Things That Could Be An Issue ongoing, where you can kind of just very clearly black and white understand a decision like a decision point on whether if we should do business with this person or not.

00:33:32: Well first of all start looking at the yellow flags And then see if they accumulate and it starts to pick out.

00:33:41: well It was really red flag but I'm giving them the benefit now.

00:33:45: that's hoping there wasn't yellow flag?

00:33:48: Then the real issue is how do you finish?

00:33:52: No matter who the other person is on the other side, whether they should or shouldn't are never.

00:33:58: I always want to leave somebody willing to deal with me again and i'm completely focused on a last impression which indicates that i'd love to do business with you.

00:34:08: kind of hear the parameters.

00:34:10: if we don't make a deal with someone If we have complete loggerhead uh...and can't get it across.

00:34:17: Here's what a great deal looks like to me.

00:34:20: I don't walk away from somebody else, i want them to consciously know What A Great Twenty-Year Deal Would Look Like and I Want Them To Turn Me Down?

00:34:29: And I never wanna leave you in a position where You Could Say If You'd Only Told Me How To Done That.

00:34:36: So I want to be collaborative From The Beginning But As Soon as the yellow Flags Start To Accumulate it.

00:34:41: if I got Three Yellow Flags Now Im Focused On A Respectful Not unabrupt, but a respectful concise ending.

00:34:51: And one of the reasons why we refer to this as The Oprah Rule I was talking about for executives at one time and she said oh yeah without question We always want make people feel cared-for and respected.

00:35:04: it went over disagrees with you on a number occasions.

00:35:07: i've been told that She said basically...you know..we have a disagreement.

00:35:13: I respect the direction you want to go, but i want you know that no matter what happens... ...I will always love and support you.

00:35:23: And then your free-to-go different directions.

00:35:25: so a lot of it has to do with how abrupt u are at the ending.. ..and even if we were completely different not meant for each other at all.

00:35:36: when you break relationship most people break relationships with name-calling and screaming, threats.

00:35:42: And how dare you?

00:35:43: If she can envision breaking it with respect then even care in love for them as a human being but if still cut off than its easier for her to cut it

00:35:53: all.

00:35:54: It is so fascinating hear your point of view just the experience that you've had The type communication they have been able translate into business.

00:36:02: I appreciate this conversation so, So much.

00:36:07: It's been so insightful and enlightening for me And i'm sure For so many people.

00:36:11: as This gets out there it's special!

00:36:14: That was fun.

00:36:15: Yeah really was.

00:36:16: Thank you for allowing Me to be involved

00:36:18: at all.